agile software is when you do story points and velocity instead of hard time estimates, and then management won't leave you alone until you give an estimate anyways
@BestGirlGrace better things are possible, but I don't expect anyone to believe that just because I said so
@fool I absolutely believe that, given that I've seen things go from good to worse, so things must be able to get better
how good things can get without removing capitalism from the equation is a different story
@BestGirlGrace I think that organizations freed from the profit or survival motives, comprising workers similarly unburdened, would still be vulnerable to similarly maladaptive power dynamics, but I'd like to see how it works out in practice just to be sure
@fool *looks at how open source projects are governed* well, abolishing capitalism can't hurt anyways, right
@BestGirlGrace agile is an attempt to camouflage an increase in worker autonomy by couching it in language that avoids anything that sounds too union-y and emphasizes how it also benefits bosses. there's two problems with this technique:
1. bosses don't want to benefit, they want to be in control
2. they're starting to get wise and see through the trick
agile requires a lot of buy-in from management (respecting the sanctity of the sprint, understanding the difference between an MVP and a finished project, accepting that estimation is difficult or impossible, limiting meetings, etc.) and, like you said, if they wanted to play by someone else's rules, they wouldn't be bosses
@BestGirlGrace agile really just exposes, imo, that good software development is at direct ends with corporate work culture and capitalism
I remember learning this firsthand when my old boss would talk for upwards of twenty minutes every stand up, and also we never saw sprint 2
@BestGirlGrace yeah. I'm lucky enough that our current team has a scrum master who's a former dev, and is thus VERY strict about meeting times, and our PO at least understands "if I'm pivoting halfway through this sprint, then you need to tell me what in the plan doesnt get done"
But it doesn't change the fact that our planning meetings regularly get ambushed and we almost always deliver 2-3 weeks over schedule because nothing "iterative" actually happens
@galaxgal that's the thing, right? you can't really do iteration if the people you deliver to don't understand the difference between an MVP and finished work, if folks don't respect the idea of a backlog, and so on. if you take out one card, the house collapses
@galaxgal yeah, that's the mood. it's all about trying to limit the ability of The Suits to interfere with dev work, which the suits inevitably ignore because why would they change
@BestGirlGrace mix in privileged stakeholders who can't grasp what an MVP is and you have a recipe for "waterfall, but trendy"
@galaxgal turns out it's really easy to just bolt the trappings of agile on whatever you were doing anyways and put that in the job ads
@BestGirlGrace its telling that most "agile trainings" are about memorizing the terminology, and nothing else
@galaxgal becoming a certified scrum master, which takes maybe a weekend and doesn't change my behavior at all
@BestGirlGrace shout-outs to scrum masters who think "engineer" is an insult to their mighty station
@BestGirlGrace I've been on and managed a few, but it largely is subverted by waterfall goons.
"Let's spend a 4-hour meeting on Monday grooming the backlog!"
@BestGirlGrace i think it's actually the same thing as agile and they just changed the name for some reason
@Draekos it would explain why it recommends pair programming. it's so you have someone to be gay with while you work.
@BestGirlGrace I'm sorry. There was a thing called, and I quote, extreme programming?
.....Did it involve programming while jumping out of helicopters? Snowboards? Cus otherwise, I'm trying to figure out what the heck was extreme about it.
@Canageek yeah, it was more popular in the 90s and kinda morphed into what we now call scrum/agile. I guess the idea is that they're taking the good parts of software engineering "to the extreme", but I always imagine someone programming while doing some X-games shit on a skateboard.
'According to the Extreme Ironing Bureau, extreme ironing is "the latest danger sport that combines the thrills of an extreme outdoor activity with the satisfaction of a well-pressed shirt.'
@BestGirlGrace ... These being the names of two dev teams somewhere is completely believable. It probably happened because they had to pick names after working 20 hours straight, and those were the free snacks in the conference room.
@BestGirlGrace *screams incoherently at dog-scaring pitches over the indisputable truth of this thread*
@BestGirlGrace this is because the certainty of a milestone’s position and momentum are inversely proportional
Don't let the name fool you. All the pornography here is legal, and much of it is hand-written. No fascists, no bigots.