agile software is when you do stand ups and the more stand ups you do, the more agile it is

agile software is when you assign a point value to all your user stories and make tasks for all of them and then you wind up doing whatever the PM says is urgent


agile software is when you do story points and velocity instead of hard time estimates, and then management won't leave you alone until you give an estimate anyways

agile software is when you move fast and break things, thus tricking whoever the DRI that week is into doing the actual work

I'd probably be less harsh on agile if I'd ever been on a team that lived up to the promises

maybe we should try extreme programming again. at least that had a funny name

extreme programming is... I think when you do pair programming and/or you do programming on a skateboard

*are you a chicken or a pig voice* are you nacho cheese or cool ranch

@BestGirlGrace better things are possible, but I don't expect anyone to believe that just because I said so

@fool I absolutely believe that, given that I've seen things go from good to worse, so things must be able to get better

how good things can get without removing capitalism from the equation is a different story

@BestGirlGrace I think that organizations freed from the profit or survival motives, comprising workers similarly unburdened, would still be vulnerable to similarly maladaptive power dynamics, but I'd like to see how it works out in practice just to be sure

@fool *looks at how open source projects are governed* well, abolishing capitalism can't hurt anyways, right

@BestGirlGrace agile is an attempt to camouflage an increase in worker autonomy by couching it in language that avoids anything that sounds too union-y and emphasizes how it also benefits bosses. there's two problems with this technique:

1. bosses don't want to benefit, they want to be in control
2. they're starting to get wise and see through the trick

@fool yuuuup

agile requires a lot of buy-in from management (respecting the sanctity of the sprint, understanding the difference between an MVP and a finished project, accepting that estimation is difficult or impossible, limiting meetings, etc.) and, like you said, if they wanted to play by someone else's rules, they wouldn't be bosses

@BestGirlGrace @fool tbf modern open source is mostly (by project... Reach? Usage? Support?) an exercise in people giving free labour to projects owned by and primarily benefitting large companies.

@swift @fool yeah, don't get me wrong, the GPL went from an anti-corporate tool to free labor incredibly quickly thanks to GNU's libertarian definition of freedom and that's part of it, but that's not the whole story

@BestGirlGrace agile really just exposes, imo, that good software development is at direct ends with corporate work culture and capitalism

@BestGirlGrace every facet of agile is either perverted or ignored by the management chain

@galaxgal Yuuup

I remember learning this firsthand when my old boss would talk for upwards of twenty minutes every stand up, and also we never saw sprint 2

@BestGirlGrace yeah. I'm lucky enough that our current team has a scrum master who's a former dev, and is thus VERY strict about meeting times, and our PO at least understands "if I'm pivoting halfway through this sprint, then you need to tell me what in the plan doesnt get done"

But it doesn't change the fact that our planning meetings regularly get ambushed and we almost always deliver 2-3 weeks over schedule because nothing "iterative" actually happens

@galaxgal that's the thing, right? you can't really do iteration if the people you deliver to don't understand the difference between an MVP and finished work, if folks don't respect the idea of a backlog, and so on. if you take out one card, the house collapses

@galaxgal yeah, that's the mood. it's all about trying to limit the ability of The Suits to interfere with dev work, which the suits inevitably ignore because why would they change

@BestGirlGrace mix in privileged stakeholders who can't grasp what an MVP is and you have a recipe for "waterfall, but trendy"

@galaxgal turns out it's really easy to just bolt the trappings of agile on whatever you were doing anyways and put that in the job ads

@BestGirlGrace its telling that most "agile trainings" are about memorizing the terminology, and nothing else

@galaxgal becoming a certified scrum master, which takes maybe a weekend and doesn't change my behavior at all

@BestGirlGrace shout-outs to scrum masters who think "engineer" is an insult to their mighty station

@galaxgal @BestGirlGrace when TLC famously sang "don't go chasing waterfalls" this is what they were warning us about

@BestGirlGrace I've been on and managed a few, but it largely is subverted by waterfall goons.

"Let's spend a 4-hour meeting on Monday grooming the backlog!"

@BestGirlGrace i think it's actually the same thing as agile and they just changed the name for some reason :blobcatthinking:

@00dani maybe it's because people kept thinking it was some kind of flavor-blasted snack food

@BestGirlGrace I thought it was when you wore your programmer socks and skirt into the office o:

@Draekos it would explain why it recommends pair programming. it's so you have someone to be gay with while you work.

@BestGirlGrace extreme agile programming is when you do parkour and rock climbing while coding

@BestGirlGrace I'm sorry. There was a thing called, and I quote, extreme programming?

.....Did it involve programming while jumping out of helicopters? Snowboards? Cus otherwise, I'm trying to figure out what the heck was extreme about it.

@Canageek yeah, it was more popular in the 90s and kinda morphed into what we now call scrum/agile. I guess the idea is that they're taking the good parts of software engineering "to the extreme", but I always imagine someone programming while doing some X-games shit on a skateboard.

@Canageek @BestGirlGrace Perhaps it's extreme ironing you're thinking of?

'According to the Extreme Ironing Bureau, extreme ironing is "the latest danger sport that combines the thrills of an extreme outdoor activity with the satisfaction of a well-pressed shirt.'

@porsupah @Canageek if anything, this is even harder than, say, lugging a laptop somewhere to get work done. way more impressive.

@BestGirlGrace @Canageek Mm, needs at least one 24" external monitor involved. Maybe a 4K demo needs to be written before they can depart.

@BestGirlGrace ... These being the names of two dev teams somewhere is completely believable. It probably happened because they had to pick names after working 20 hours straight, and those were the free snacks in the conference room.

@BestGirlGrace *screams incoherently at dog-scaring pitches over the indisputable truth of this thread*

@BestGirlGrace this is because the certainty of a milestone’s position and momentum are inversely proportional

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